What other people think about POCM
There is certainly no mystery as to why your name is Kane. Your fruit is a witness to your family tree.
I read your comments and proofs that Christianity is not original, however, if its not original and it is not Divinely inspired then why are most of those other religions virtually instinct?
Were any of those other so called Christ's real ?
Can there stories be proven through archeology and ancient historians (Joe Cephas ect.)?
The writers also did not get the their facts from there own heads, but through the Torah and being with Jesus (They were eye witnesses) and of course revelation from Jesus himself (Paul and John)
addition, I find untrue information on one page and a correction
elsewhere. My colleagues and I have a hard time following your
web site. Rather than accuse you of circular logic, I am going to accuse
you of causing "circular surfing".
The thing is, 50/50, if what happened to me, as an atheist, 28 years ago, when I gave my life 100% to this Person I recognize as the Creator and Saviour of this world, when I was filled with peace and joy and my life radically changed, was just some kind of delusion; well, when I die, so be it. I won't know the difference. But, if everything I believe is true (and other such "saviours" who have had nowhere near the lasting impact on this planet, were just preconceived counterfeits to confuse matters), well, paradise here I come when He returns. That also means an end to those who refuse the invitation, if the Bible is correct. Hey, 50/50. I'll take the Person they call Jesus, the Christ. Works for me.
But I appreciate all the effort you've put into your info collecting.
Thank you for doing your site. I just started researching this stuff and it is very uncomfortable but if you think for yourself it is too true not to accept.
I agree with what your site says about Jesus just being the latest in Pagen god-men myths. But you state Mark, Matthew, Luke and John sat down to write about Jesus. That is a falsehood.
"The New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso (pronounced Peso w/long "E") family (a), who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in it -- Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples, apostles, Paul, and John the Baptist--are all fictional."
"The Pisos created the story and the characters; they tied the story into a specific time and place in history; and they connected it with some peripheral actual people, such as the Herods, Gamaliel, the Roman procurators, etc. But Jesus and everyone involved with him were created (that is, fictional!) characters."
"About the year, 60 A.D. (C.E.), Lucius Calpurnius Piso composed Ur Marcus, the first version of the Gospel of Mark, which no longer exists.
Thanks, and keep up the GOOD work.
You still will have to face God as your Judge and you will be judged for what you have done. Will you be exalted? No you will be brought down to the pit where you will be tormented forever; where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. If your not with him or for him you are really fighting against him, and because of your evil thoughts and actions you become his enemy and one day he will put all his enemies under his feet. I suggest you turn away from your sins and trust Christ to take away your sins. You see one day all liars, thieves, murderers, sexually immoral, and unbelievers will be thrown in the lake of fire for eternity while those who confessed their sins, trusted that Christ was the sacrifice that pleases Gods wrath completely, will reign with God with total Joy forever. Turn from you sin and you can be forgiven.
The difference between the pagan idea of eternity and Christians is this: Pagans offer only eternity to good people If you're good enough you can earn your way to heaven. Christ offers Heaven to those who believe in Him and trust in Him for their eternal soul. Of course we are supposed to strive to be good, but we will all fall short of being worth of Heaven. Jesus came to offer the path to salvation and eternity which no one could ever measure up to, including pagans.
Thank you for listening.
Great job with the website, I love it. Your site is so help, I teach my daughter about past religion's and all the myth religion's in the world. I hope your website stays up for future generation's to come.
Thank you for the knowledge you give!
I just discovered your site. The last 4 years have been a journey for us out of Christianity after coming to the realizations of the facts of pagan religions. We spent a year living in Israel and discovered many ancient writings there and on a trip to Rome visiting many libraries. We have become Karaite Jews, we only follow the Tanakh (old testament) of Yehovah....the first Judaism if you will. Not the Rabbinic Judaism of today.
Keep up the great work!! I now have a place to send poor deceived Christians.
[A couple hours later she emailed again...]
Big problem here dude.....prior to the King Jeroboam, when the tribes of Israel split into a northern kingdom and a southern kingdom, NO one believed in hell, original sin, that man dies and went to heaven, none of that. THAT started with Jeroboam and his adulteration of the beginnings taught by Moses. You can trash Moses and God choosing Israel and call it the same as all the rest of paganism, though you are wrong but at least get the facts straight. Orthodox Judaism today is a direct descendant from Jeroboam and all of the mixing with pagan beliefs. So you have today's Judaism right. It was NOT the belief of Jews prior to Jeroboam.
I just want to say that I cannot get away from your website. You have a great deal of information that would satisfy anyone that is interested in the truth. It is not biased (for what I see all the information is accurate). More peole need to be made aware of this and I will do my best to get it out as much as I can! Thank you for such detailed work!
Sonny L. CE 2007
seems to me that you deny facts:"Archeology has confirmed
countless passages which have been rejected by critics as un historical
or contradictory to known facts"
"Skepticism regarding the historical credentials
of Christianity is based irrational bias."
I noticed your web page never discusses what myth is, why groups invented myths, why myths were important to people, and perhaps most importantly why mythmaking isn't synonymous with lying.
I imagine many people have trouble with the concept of a Christ myth because it leads them to think what you're talking about is that some ancients penned stories just to fool people. That idea doesn't make any sense (they're right), so people decide the Christ story is not a Christ myth (they're wrong). To many people I'm sure syncretism is bad enough (even the pagans could get something right once in a while!), but mythmaking is just evil. Would you consider adding a page to discuss mythmaking?
I am a Follower of Jesus Christ but not in the sense you are probably accustomed. I am called to witness. Witnessing means to sound the alarm, to warn of the judgement that will come to all men. You have officially been witnessed to..
Interesting website and well done. I do however completely disagree with you. Thanks for the challenge.
The Lord is coming very soon better get ready i feel sorry for you. You need to get on your knees and ask the Lord to forgive you of your sins and become a child of God.. I shall keep you in my prayers
I trully feel
sorry for you. Apparently you failed to read the Bible in its
intirety. If you had trully done your research as ou say you
did then you would have discovered that Christianity was not derived
from pagan religions but that pagan religions were taken from Judaism,
The Complete Authority on The One True God! People like you do everything
you can to destroy God but when all is said and done, God Himself will
be left standing....Oh by the way, you were unsuccessful at hiding your
belief. You obviosly do not believe in God or Jesus. I wonder though,
if your parachute had not opened and you plummetted
to the earth, would you have just crossed your arms and said Oh well
that's life, or would ou have cried out for the "mythilogical
Jesus" to save your sorry hide? I think you need to go
back to your ancient studies and relearn history! I hope and pray that
you learn of God's wonderful mercy and grace before you have to learn
of His judgements that He has reserved for those who have rejected Him.
lier this is all a huge lie,and even
though you all have turned your
I have myself studied religion at a major university and have read what you have read. The data to which you base your conclusions on is shaky at best. Your references to other primative religions are comparative in nature, but not in scope of the atonement theology found in Christianity. In addition, Justin Martyr was not affirming the fact that Christians borrowed the idea of a virgin birth from Jupiter, he was simply making a bridge in his communications with those who did not beleive. Your work may be comparable to the DaVinci code: Compeling to the uninformed but founded only in part to scientifically and historically proven facts.
But, I've noticed that these plagerising christians are only accepting
a free gift of eternal life according to Ephesians Chapter 2. "For
salvation is by grace and not by works so that no man shall boast".
That's what's different about christianity, but I don't expect
that to rock your world. In fact, none of the truth you will
ever hear in your whole life will change that, unless you want it to.
I honestly hope you spend some time with God and ask him what the truth
You take the time to discuss people's reactions to the issues on your site, so it seems like you'd want to mention that Everett Ferguson, who wrote one of the books you highly recommend, is a rather well-known Christian historian. I believe he is or was a professor for a Church of Christ college in Abilene, TX.
In other words, you've got a Christian backing up the things you're saying, so it's surprising to me you didn't point it out.
I am a lifelong Christian who stumbled onto your site while searching for the origin of Christmas. I am impressed with your reasoning and study. I wondered though if you have not started with a conclusion (such as “Jesus is not God”) and therefore filtered out some evidence that would historically support traditional Christian philosophy.
Yes I admit christianity is blanketed by false pagan worship and is corruption at its finest. A false front for the blind. The reason, good old Constantine and his merry men of the Roman empire. Yes it's your own, your own cradle of filth. You and what you write are just as false as christianity, in fact you are one and the same, a fool. Plain and simply a fool, and an idiot.
you ever stopped to think about this....that It was perhaps paganism
that immitated Christianity? That Satan, knowing that
he could deceive many by creating something simillar to the real thing
could succeed in turning them away from their only source of salvation
using the exact argument that you are using, that is was Christianity
that copied paganism? And of course the fact that those beliefs were
there before Jesus ever arrived at the scene mean nothing...after all
Satan has been there from the beginning of the earth
just as God has...he set up his deception way ahead of time
though, so as to fool people just like you! I would
urge to back away from this line of persecution for your own sake....the
master you have chosen to follow is cruel and unforgiving, unlike Jesus
and God His father who are the helpers of humanity. If you read the
Bible with an open and humble spirit, and without pre-conceived ideas,
God will reveal the truth to you, and the truth will set you free.
I appreciate so much you taking time to create something like this when there is nothing (commercially, financially - at least that I could tell from the site) in it for you. As someone who appreciates concise writing - thanks! As someone who appreciates humour in the obvious - thanks thanks! As someone who is seeking - thanks thanks thanks! Please keep it up if you can.
Many regards from a spiritual-seeking-soccer-mom in Canada.
There is something to be said for the Historical Jesus which was documented outside the Biblical sources.
Although, Christianity borrows from Paganism, you won't see a Historical Osiris, or Mithras.
Also, the fact that Jesus was written about 20 or so years after his death disproves that he himself was a Mythical figure, although some events surrounding him could have been.
Instead of using sarcastic language like "sissy spiritual Gods" "Silly myth, till you see it's also our myth." I think it would be better to use a rather scholarly style, leading to a higher reputable website.
Making comparison of the virgin birth
to the imbreeding of a cow can be sarcastic by itself, without
using an informal entertaining style.
have had suspicions about this but when I read "the victors write
the history" it made excellent sense. Rome became christian in
the 300 - 400's.
web page! I was introduced to this concept in college as well,
by a Jewish professor, Dr. Gessman.
I am really disappointed in the flawed logic which produced this statement on your page:
"Christianity is different from Judaism, yet everyone agrees it did borrow from Judaism. The Christian three-headed God is different from Judaism's one-headed God."
Now I'm assuming that by "three-headed God" you are referring to the Trinity. But this is a caricature of the doctrine, not the actual doctrine. Ever heard of a straw man? And if the Trinity in Christianity is so different from the alleged "one-headed" God of Judaism, no one as yet has been able to adequately explain why this "one-headed" God sometimes speaks of Himself in the singular, and sometimes in the plural (i.e., "we" "let US" etc). Or perhaps you care to explain books like Amazon.com: Books: The Jewish Trinity ??
Thanks for the great info. I've gone through similar classes and your site was a terrific refresher.
One surprisingly missing thing was how Christian leaders changed holidays around to compete with popular pagan holidays. Christmas moved to coincide with the winter solstice and Easter moved to coincide with the spring solstice comes to mind. It still amazes me that Christians still discount this regardless of known astronomical facts and historical records of sheparding habits.
But then again, in the immortal words of Carl Sagan, "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe."
I pray for your salvation. If you can explain how the earth was created and what happens after death in your beliefs, then I will be surprised.
Many of the pagan beliefs come from the bible, copy and paste!
You don't understand, that although there are many historical facts throughout the bible, you lack the concept of faith and experience. I have experienced God, I know that he has real, he speaks to me everyday.
You said that the letters written in the new testament written by the apostles have been changed over time mostly due to the persecution and stuff, but then you went on to quote one to prove your point. I think you are guessing with a muddled up, mixed around view of life...
So in future, if your going to post stuff on the internet, you need better resources or something. Not even that, because you can quote your historeans and all that, but I can quote Bill Clinton saying he didn't have relations with Monica, does that make it a fact? no. So it is just as easy to believe what the bible says as it is to listen to all the other stuff that people said thousands of years ago.
I love ya, and I pray for ya.
I am sorry to hear that you have been blinded by the one that has created our human bodies which decieve all....Lucifer You are all of a great deception, even our churches regarding the Old Testement. The God of the Old Testement is Lucifer and the God whom Jesus Christ speaks of is our true god, Jesus'es father, unbegotten father mentioned in the New Testement. Of all the miracles my lord Jesus has given unto me I am to shraring this photo I took of myself upon asking my Lord to reveal his image unto me. You will see that he granted my wish upon I am to bare witness of our savior Jesus Christ. Here is the link to the image(His beautiful face) that is of our Lord Jesus Christ.
May you now eat from the Tree of Knowledge and be awakened unto the Truth of our Savior Jesus Christ "Hugs" :)
May the Lord be with you
Dear Mr. Kane,
I feel truly sad that you have chosen to write these horrible lies and thus convince people of them. It is evident that you are an atheist and want to propogate this belief. I challenge you to read the Old Testament and judge for yourself where the truth lies, the Old testament fully details and gives prophecy of the coming messiah which was fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ. There may be many similarities in all the mythological tales of other gods and saviors, but realize that came into existence due to the fact that after the fall of man the corruption and mind of man deviated from the truth. The ancient people had heard of these truths and prophecies and in their need for God, as we all have, made up stories which sounded similar to the truth. The devil has been part of this lie since the beginning. I will pray for you and for the truth to be revealed to you. Once again I challenge you to read the Bible, first the OLd Testament and then the New Testament, and read how so many Christians were martyred for their faith. I wonder in your research how many people were willing to die for their faith and conviction. Also Judeo-Christian faith and Judaism has been around for a very long time, and the person of Jesus Christ has changed the course of history like no one else, I don't see any of these ancient gods still spoken of, or any of them having had a lasting influence on humanity.
I appreciate the section where you poke fun at an opponent's spelling. Perhaps you don't realize how funny it is.
I read with great interest the info you posted regarding the borrowed traditions of Christianity from Paganism. While reading the accounts of the sacred meal shared with the gods, I realized that the sacred meal account in the New Testament is not treated adequately. That meal, in the upper room bewteen Christ and his disciples is an annual reenactment of the Passover that dates back to the liberation of the Jews from Egypt, and has a long history. To depict this sacred meal as an exclusive event only as it relates to the New Testament illustrates superficial scholarship, and quickly dampened my enthusiasm for the whole subject of borrowed traditions. This is unfortunate, as I am sure this field holds merit, but with such a superficialility, I will bide my time and wait for greater substantive treatment of the whole picture.
God wants to reward you with an eternal life with abounding love, isn't that at least worth looking into? What can you loose from it? I challenge you to read these scriptures I've written with an open mind. After all, don't you wonder who your maker is and who created this world?
I'm a married 27 year old mom of three young boys, I pray every day that they DO go through some trials I did growing up (I had many questions and concerns about the bible) but I opened my heart, studied the scriptures and found God! I will pray the same prayer for you every day until I believe you are saved or if you want to contact me.
Please consider it.
Hi, my name is Rhonda and I'm a Christian (Reformed). I was intrested in your website, but you can't convince me to belive. It is intresting, however.
About those cults and stuff you mentioned. Did those people that you mentioned die for their faith? Or did they recant it?
When the Christians died becuase of persucution, they did not recant. They did not recant becuase they knew it was the truth. Would you die for something that you didn't belive in? I wouldn't. But I would feel joy in suffering pain and death for Jesus. Sure, I'm afriad of pain and suffering...who isn't...but I have the sure truth that I'll see God face to face when my suffering is over.
Would you die like that for a lie???
My thoughts are that God gave Adam and Eve an idea of what salvation would look like and this was passed on down through the generations. However, as we all know, verbal messages get warped as they are passed on from person to person. As nations were formed, differing ideas of God and salvation were developed.
Yes, paganism came before Christianity. But only because they tried to make something happen before it actually did. Everyone was looking for a savior and made false gods, much like what happened to the Jews in the wilderness of Moses' day.
Perhaps Christianity hasn't "borrowed" from the pagans after all. Perhaps the pagans just borrowed their ideas from an even more ancient religion...the worship of the one true living God. Perhaps they just had it wrong and Christ set it right.
You may know an awful lot about the ancient religions of Greek and Roman mythology, but you are seriously lacking in the understanding of Christianity. This is apparent throughout the entire thing.
You are assuming that because pagan faiths practiced very similar things such as baptism, sacred meals, virgin births, resurrections, etc. that Christians must have adopted these things from the pagans. This is simply not true—Christianity came about with the fulfillment of Old Testament prophesy… These prophecies date WELL before the Greek, Roman, and many Egyptian "gods" and practices.
The Old Testament prophesied many things that were to come—that
came to pass! It is statistically impossible that Jesus could have lived
a life that
Most importantly, these events and characteristics we attribute to Jesus were not something that were made up or adopted in the few-hundred-year timeframe you describe—they were prophecies from hundreds and thousands of years prior! Also, the ideas of resurrection, God's kingdom on Earth, a God-man Messiah, etc. are all found in the Old Testament.
As far as the similarities go, it really doesn't matter. Did you take into consideration whether those who propagated pagan beliefs existed (1) within the same time period or before, (2) were regionally within a distance they could have had an influence and (3) were likely to have had cultural influences that could prove the borrowing of pagan ideas into Christianity.
I would like to see more work devoted to proving likeliness of influence more than just similarity. It is just as likely that the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, etc. had heard parts of the prophecies of the Old Testament and adapted them. Regardless, similarity really doesn’t matter.
the site. Hate the way you just STOP. I felt like I
fell off the end of world.
I was very happy to read through your pagan/ Christianity site. It's an area of recent interest with me and I really appreciate your non-judgmental tone.
For me at least, you were successful in hiding your own religious beliefs.
CHRIST was slain before time and space for our sins. He witnessed the father of paganism cast to earth. Hence all the confusion.
your servant in CHRIST , ralph
I can't say that i'm Pagan, but i am looking into it. I'm trying to find out as much as i can about it. Your page, though informatively seen from a different point of view (your point), i didn't find that great. You have a couple of grammatical errors and a couple of verbal misuse (I have a prefectionist habit and if you would like some examples, i would be happy to show you, but i won't include them in here).
You might be thinking that I didn't like your page simply because of
your errors... well, it goes back further than that. You talk about
Paganism like you know everything about it (i'm not saying you do know
everything about it, but rather you sound like it). Now if you have
errors in the language you're using to describe it in, how can i be
sure that there are no errors in your teachings? (I know you say you're
not trying to pursuade, but want it or not, those are considered teachings)
On a more happier oppinion, this could just be the habit talkin. I'm
not saying your writing is false, I don't even know that much about
the religion. However, i would like you to think on it.
It was interesting to read about the pagan origins of Christianity because I consider Christianity to be a pagan religion. Or at least polytheistic. After all, Christians pray to The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost, The Virgin Mother, and all the saints and angels. Even Satan could be said to be another aspect of polytheism. He is, after all, a supernatural being who rules over a kingdom not of the material world.
Hello Greg Kane
I just wanted to let you know that I found your website very interesting
indeed. For many years I have seen the correlation between the Christ
figure and pagan counterparts. It is of course not a popular topic for
many. What I feel is that rather than diminishing the impact of
the savior, it serves to enhance the archetype as a real and viable
expression of spiritual life.
Very interesting web site!
I agree that all religions mean the same thing ,and
have the same concepts. The more advanced the learning is, the more
apparent this becomes.
The Holy Bible was actually written in this format to reflect
or model every religion on Earth. There are words that are different
words but translate over
to the same phrases which have the same meanings. Knowing
this is the first step in breaking the bible code. It is nice to read
a web site from someone
with this kind of pure logic.
are filled with the lies that anti-Christians give. The answer to your own theory is one
is the body of Jesus?
Had they produced it Christianity would have stopped thousands
of years ago.
Conquerors did write things to suit them, but why does the Bible agree like it does and tell things as if they happened hundreds of years before they did happen?
Did it ever occur to you that the Pagans borrowed from Christians, or are you bigoted to think that the influence goes only one way?
because so whacked out religious nutcase did something wrong the whole
religion is condemned for being bunk?
As for a dying Son of God, Does it predate the Books of Moses (Bible) written starting in 1500-2500 years before Christ?
That is truly amazing, that there is a book or source in our world today that is older than the Bible that tells the same story. Are you truthful, sir or just whacked out?
Hello. I just found your website and it is very interesting and well done. You mention the absence of university courses discussing the issue of pagan influence on Christianity. A couple of years ago I took a course entitled "The Pagan Background of Christianity" at Queens University in Kingston, Canada - a leading univ. in Canada. It was a well presented and thorough course which brought up much of the information I see on your website. The primary text used was one on your recommended list - "The Ancient Mysteries: a Sourcebook" by Meyer. Keep up the good work.
I have a few comments...
1) Why do people spend so much time and energy trying to kill/debunk/etc Christianity?... I have determined that it must come from some inate human desire to fight the percieved authority/majority institution in their lives. In other words, if Hinduism was the predominate religion on the planet, people would be spending huge amounts of time trying to "prove" that Hinduism is a load of shit.
3) Your arguments, looked at from a different perspective, support the conclusion that there is only ONE truth in the spiritual world. (gasp!) All these stories and people and events might actually point to the same ONE God, One Son(Child), One Spirit, One Heaven, One Hell, etc etc etc. Different
Sorry Greg, i disagree, people find what they are looking for, if you look for no God , you surely will find it. But if you look for the True God that is what you will find.
What a delightful site. I've read recently some of the writings of Tacitus, the Roman historian, who was obviously a non-christian. He mentions Jesus of Nazareth and his crucifixion. What I find stunning is the huge number of early christians that would die at the hands of animals rather than deny an association with Jesus. Based on the innate need to survive and the fact that no one would die voluntarily for something they don't truly believe, I suspect that it might be a little presumptuous on our part to try to 'wash away' this Jesus guy by arranging a comparison between his group and pagans. I don't see history being written by priests either. Many of the early historians were not christians. I think Josephus was, but he wasn't even mentioned in the Western civ books I studied in college.
Actually, I think there may be something to this Jesus thing. I'm gonna check it out cause all the people I've met who say they "believe in him", whatever that means, seem to have an inner peace that the rest don't have.
I'll write again after I've learned more about it.
It has become clear to me that so many of us, as Christians,
back up the historical accuracy of the Bible by reading what the Bible
has to say. Case in
point....I read a summary by Josh McDowell about the historical proof
of the resurrection. All
of his references and evidence were taken directly from the Bible. It's
as if it's not acceptable to look outside the Bible and theological
sources for answers.
And I guess now I know why.I....
Thanks so much.
The truth is that the plan of salvation was shown to Adam in what is called the Mazzaroth (Hebrew Zodiac) before any books were written. The Mazzaroth was later perverted by satan into occultic astrology. In the book of Genesis we see evidence that Levitical rules were in place when Cain and Abel brought there sacrifices before God. What I am saying is the religion that Jesus taught was the same as that God commanded in the Torah (old testament). The pagan religions that you repeatedly refer to are a corruption of what God told His people 6,000 years ago. God creates, satan counterfeits and deceives. Paganism started at the tower of Babel when satan influenced nimrod and he rebelled against God. All the nations had known the truth about Messiah but it was perverted with sun worship orchestrated by satan. You refer to "ancients" that overnight developed civilization, mathematics, etc.; not so, they were influenced by fallen angels (read Genesis 6 and the book of Enoch) and that is were "myths" about giants and titans come from. One of his greatest weapons is appealing to the arrogance of man. He has people believe they are so sophisticated, that it is silly to believe he exists. The problem with Christianity is that it lost its Hebraic roots soon after the resurrection due to persecution, that is why Jesus warned us about false doctrine. Rev 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." You have been duped by a master deceiver, he has been active for thousands of years, he plants seeds of doubt in minds, his hatred for you is without limit, he will laugh at you throughout eternity.
My husband and I have done some travelling and in Indonesia and Sri Lanka and Thailand we visited temples with ancient carvings on them recounting the great myths of the regions. In all there is a story of the hero cum savior, born of a mortal woman and god.
In Egypt, of course, there are many examples. At Deir al-Bahri, the mortuary temple of Queen Hatshepsut, is also related her earthly/divine origins. In all a "being" comes to the mother in a vision or dream and tells her of the impending "visit" by the god afterwhich she will deliver a son (never a daughter except for Hatshepsut) who will deliver his people. We were immediately struck by the parallels to Christ's story.