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| Facts > Pagan Ideas > Prophecy | ||||
| Jesus fulfilled prophecy—Pagan Gods fulfilled prophecy first |
Was
Christianity new? Was Christianity unique?
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Prophsies were like other miracles. Paganism had plenty of them, the early Christains believed in the Pagan miracles (though they often attributed them to Pagan demons). Early Christianity also had plenty of spirit filled prophets of it's own. Both Christians and Pagans understood their prophesies with the same—Pagan—ideas. |
| Reasons |
| Christian ideas about prophesy were identical with Pagan ideas about prophesy—the only difference was Christians believed their prophesy came from their one true God and Pagan prophesies came from Pagan demons. Christian ideas about prophesy come from deep in the Pagan center of ancient culture |
| Why the mess? POCM 2007 | ![]() |
| SOP |
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| Jews
too
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"the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their [the Jews] future desolation."[Josephus, Jewish War, ,6.5.288] He goes on: "Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year." [6.5.289] And in the Temple, "at the ninth hour of the night of the night a great light shone round the altar....This light seemed to be a good sign to the naive, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend the events that followed." [6.5.291- 293] And, "also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple." [6.5.292] "Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner temple. . .was seen to be opened of its own accord. This also the vulgar thought a happy prodigy...but the men of learning understood it."[6.5.293 - 295] And, "...chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds. [6.5.298 - 299] And "Jesus, son of Ananus...came to that feast whereon.. everyone makes tabernacles to God in the temple...and began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house." [6.5.300- 301] |
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So strong was the Pagans' faith, they institutionalized prophecy-miracles with professional prophesy-readers—guys with training and text-books, guys you'd consult like you consult a doctor. Ask a question, the prophecy-guy would find it on his list, apply his divine-seer skills, and foretell your future for you. Very comforting. How do we know this? We have the prophecy books they used. > > Professor
Lee describes:
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Questions
to an oracle: |
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They
saw that what both the fearful and the hopeful needed and wanted the most
was knowledge of the future,
that this was the reason Delphi
and Delos and Carus
and Didyma had ages ago become
rich and famous; men, because of the two tyrants I mentioned, hope and
fear, were forever coming to these shrines and asking to know the future,
and, in payment, the sacrificed whole hecatombs and donated ingots of
gold. After turning this discovery over in their minds and pondering it,
the partners laid plans to set up an
oracle, a seat of prophecy. So Alexander gave out oracles and
made prophecies, using a great deal of resourcefulness and combining guesswork
with inventiveness. |
| Why so many prophesies? | |
What was going to happen next was nothing more that what the Pagan Gods planned to do next, so of course the Pagan Gods and their prophets knew the future. One
good thing about Pagan Gods was they didn't mind
letting on what they knew about the future. So,
like Pagan miracles
generally, Pagan prophecy-miracles number in the tens of thousands.
You run out of patience before you run out of prophecy miracles.
So here at POCM, I've included enough to give you a sense of how central
prophecy was to Paganism. Need more? Just pick up Herodotus, Livy, Josephus,
or any other ancient historian. They're chock-a-block with prophecy-miracles.
Guaranteed.
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| Christians believed Pagan prophesies | |
| Delphic oracle done by demons. | If,
then, the Pythian priestess is
beside herself when she prophesies,
what spirit must that be which fills her mind and clouds her judgment
with darkness, unless it be of the same order with
those demons which many Christians cast out of persons possessed
with them? And this, we may observe, they do without the use of any curious
arts of magic, or incantations, but merely by prayer and simple adjurations
which the plainest person can use. |
Moreover,
if it is believed not only among Christians and Jews, but also by many
others among the Greeks and Barbarians, that the
human soul lives and subsists after
its separation from the body; and if reason supports the idea that
pure souls which are not weighed down with sin as with a weight of lead
ascend on high to the region of purer and more ethereal bodies, leaving
here below their grosser bodies along with their impurities; whereas souls
that are polluted and dragged down to the earth by their sins, so that
they are unable even to breathe upwards, wander
hither and thither, at some times about
sepulchres, where they appear as the apparitions of shadowy
spirits, at others among other objects on the ground;--if this
is so, what are we to think of those spirits that are attached
for entire ages, as I may say, to particular dwellings and places, whether
by a sort of magical force or by their own natural wickedness?
Are we not compelled by reason to set down as evil such spirits as employ
the power of prophesying—a power in itself neither good nor bad—for the purpose of deceiving
men, and thus turn them away from God, and from the purity of His service?
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| Justin Martyr acknowledges Pagan miracles—says Christian miracles are similar | For
let even necromancy, and the
divinations you practise by
immaculate children, and the evoking
of departed human souls, and those who are called among the magi,
Dream-senders and Assistant-spirits
(Familiars), and all that is done by those who are skilled
in such matters--let these persuade you that even after death
souls are in a state of sensation; and those who are seized and cast about
by the spirits of the dead, whom all call daemoniacs or madmen; and what
you repute as oracles, both
of Amphilochus, Dodana, Pytho,
and as many other such as exist; and the opinions of
your authors, Empedocles and Pythagoras, Plato and Socrates, and the pit
of Homer, and the descent of Ulysses to inspect these things, and all
that has been uttered of a like kind.
Such favour as you grant to these, grant also to us, who not less
but more firmly than they believe in God; since we expect to receive again
our own bodies, though they be dead and cast into the earth, for we maintain
that with God nothing is impossible. |
But,
to use the very words of Celsus, let it be granted that "the
sun, moon, and stars do foretell
rain, and heat, and clouds, and thunders," why, then, if
they really do foretell such great things,
ought we not rather to do homage to God, whose servant they are in uttering
these predictions, and show reverence to Him rather than His prophets?
Let them predict, then, the
approach of lightnings, and fruits, and all manner of productions, and
let all such things be under their administration; yet we shall not on
that account worship those who themselves offer worship, as we do not
worship even Moses, and those prophets who came from God after him, and
who predicted better things than rain, and heat, and clouds, and thunders,
and lightnings, and fruits, and all sorts of productions visible to the
senses. Nay, even if sun, and moon, and stars were able to prophesy better
things than rain, not even then shall we worship them, but the Father
of the prophecies which are in them, and the Word of God, their minister.
But grant that they are His heralds,
and truly messengers of heaven, why, even then ought we not to worship
the God whom they only proclaim and announce, rather than those who are
the heralds and messengers? |
Origen acknowledges pagan prophesies
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In
the next place, miracles were performed
in all countries, or at least in many of them, as Celsus himself
admits, instancing the case of Asclepius,
who conferred benefits on many, and who foretold
future events to entire cities, which were dedicated to him, such
as Tricca, and Epidaurus, and Cos, and Pergamus... |
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| Celsus mentions a multitude of Pagan oracles | Celsus
goes on to say of us: "They [Christians] set no value on the oracles
of the Pythian priestess, of
the priests of Dodona, of Clarus,
of Branchidae, of Jupiter
Ammon, and of a multitude of
others; although under their guidance we may say that colonies
were sent forth, and the whole world peopled. |
| Origen admits the oracles are real, but says: demons! | [the
Christian father Origen replies] |
| Maxentius told: this day an enemy of Rome will perish | 44.7
Discord arose in the city and the emperor
[Maxentius] was upbraided for abdicating responsibility…..
44.8 Disconcerted by this cry, he curried away and, summoning some senators,
he ordered the Sibylline books to be consulted. In them was found the
statement that on that day the enemy
of Rome would perish. |
Christianity
borrowed the Pagan notion of Sibylline Oracles![]() |
In
pagan times the oracles and predictions
ascribed to the sibyls were carefully collected and jealously
guarded in the temple of Jupiter Capitolinus, and were
consulted only in times of grave crises. Because of the vogue enjoyed
by these heathen oracles and because of the influence they had in shaping
the religious views of the period, the Hellenistic
Jews in Alexandria, during the second century B.C. composed
verses in the same form, attributing them to the sibyls, and circulated
them among the pagans as a means of diffusing Judaistic doctrines and
teaching. This custom was continued down into Christian times, and was
borrowed by some Christians
so that in the second or third century, a new class of oracles
emanating from Christian sources came into being. Hence the Sibylline
Oracles can be classed as Pagan, Jewish, or Christian. |
| Christian prophesies | |
| Second century Christian prophetess | in
the period after the emperor Alexander [Severus (193 - 211 AD)]... There
were numerous frequent earthquakes…
some towns were even swallowed up by cracks opening in the ground and
taken down to the depths. …. |
And
while he [Polycarp] was praying
he fell into a trance three
days before his arrest, and he saw his pillow being consumed by fire.
And he turned and said to those who were with him: "It
is necessary that I be burned alive." |
| |
44.5
Constantine was enjoined
in a dream to
mark the heavenly symbol of God on the shields of his men and so to engage
in battle. He did as commanded, and marked Christ on the shields
in the form of a letter X placed sideways with the top bent around. |
| Examples | |
| Oracles | |
| Omens | |
| Prodigies | |
| Dreams | |
| Divination | |
| Auspices |
| Prophesies | |
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Pythagoras had the power of God in him. How do we know this? His prophecies always came true, that's how. >> |
The
Pythagoreans are said to have predicted many things, and Pythagoras'
predictions always came true. |
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'Cause
I'm sure you're dying to know, here's the Pythagorean's theology about
how prophecy worked >> |
The
Pythagoreans also assert that
the whole air is full of souls,
and that these are those that are accounted daimons or heroes. They are
the ones that send down among men dreams, and tokens of disease and health;
the latter not being reserved to human beings, but being sent also to
sheep and cattle as well. They are concerned
with purifications, expiations, and all kinds of divinations, oracular
predictions, and the like. |
| Christian prophets foretold the future. Pagan prophecy readers and Sibyls and the Pythian priestess and the priests of Dodona and Clarus and Branchidae and Jupiter Amon and a multitude of others and Pythagoras and his disciples foretold the future first. |
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Apollonius
had the power of prophecy >> |
For
the circumstance that Apollonius foresaw
and foreknew so many things does not in the least justify us in
imputing to him this kind of wisdom [black magic]; we might as well accuse
Socrates of the same, because,
thanks to his familiar spirit, he knew things beforehand,
and we might also accuse Anaxagoras
because of the many things he foretold. |
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Christian prophets foretold the future. Pagan prophecy readers and Sybils and the Pythian priestess and the priests of Dodona and Clarus and Branchidae and Jupiter Amon and a multitude of others and Pythagoras and his disciples and the godman Apollonius of Tyana and Socrates and Anaxagoras foretold the future first. Are you seeing the pattern here? |
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They
saw that what both the fearful and the hopeful
needed and wanted the most was knowledge of the
future, that this was the reason Delphi
and Delos and Carus
and Didyma had ages ago become
rich and famous; men ... were forever coming to these shrines
and asking to know the future, and, in payment, the sacrificed
whole hecatombs and donated ingots of gold. After turning this discovery
over in their minds and pondering it, the
partners laid plans to set up an oracle, a seat of prophecy. |
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Amphilochus, you see, after his father Amphiaraus' death and disappearance in Thebes, had been banished from his home town; he make his way to Cilicia and there came out of it all very nicely by going into oracle making himself, and foretelling the future for the Cilicians at a charge of 75 cents per prediction. [Lucian, Alexander the False Prophet, 8 (2d Century AD),—which you can find in: Casson, Lionel. Selected Satires of Lucian (1962), pg. 278] |
"Amphiaraus
had been a seer during his lifetime. After a mysterious death (Zeus clove
the ground in front of his chariot and he was swallowed up), he continued
prophesying from a famous shrine
in central Greece. The son's oracle was located in the town of Mallus."] |
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Pretty
soon Alexander was even sending
agents into neighboring lands to spread the word about his oracle among
various people. These men advertised that he offered general prophecy,
recovery of runaway slaves, detection of thieves and bandits, discovery
of buried treasure, healing
of the sick, and, on occasion, raising
of the dead. The result was a stampede from all sides plus sacrifices
and offerings. |
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Christian prophets foretold the future. Pagan prophecy readers and Sybils and the Pythian priestess and the priests of Dodona and Clarus and Branchidae and Jupiter Amon and a multitude of others and Pythagoras and his disciples and the godman Apollonius of Tyana and Socrates and Anaxagoras and the priests at Delos and Dymma, and Amphilochus and Amphiarus and Glycon's prophet Alexander foretold the future first. |
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Christian prophets foretold the future. Pagan prophecy readers and Sybils and the Pythian priestess and the priests of Dodona and Clarus and Branchidae and Jupiter Amon and a multitude of others and Pythagoras and his disciples and the godman Apollonius of Tyana and Socrates and Anaxagoras and the priests at Delos and Dymma, and Amphilochus and Amphiarus and Glycon's prophet Alexander and the nation of the Greeks, and the nation of the Telmessians, and the nation of the Carians and the nation of the Phyrgians, and the nation of the Isaurians and the nation of the Cyprians foretold the future first. Are you seeing the pattern here? Prophecies made and prophecies fulfilled were basic to Paganism. I promised we'd run out of patience before we ran out of prophecies. And so we have. |
| Oracles | |
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| Christian prophets foretold the future. Pagan prophecy readers foretold the future first. |
Sibyls = prophetesseseszz One good thing about Pagan Gods was they didn't mind letting on what they knew about the future. You could get a forecast by consulting a Sibyl. (Why "Sibyls"? Because it was easier than "prophetesseseszz." The ancients didn't have spill chuckers.) Here's the second century Christian writer Justin Martyr describing a Pagan Sybil at work >> A Sybil was a woman, a prophetess who spoke God's words for Him. There were lots of Sibyls in lots of places. A God would move the Sibyl to speak, someone would quick write down what she said and later on folks would consult her words (in Rome they kept them in them the "Sibylline Books"—you'll someday run across that term in the ancient texts) for help foretelling the future. |
[T]he ancient Sibyl, who by some kind of potent inspiration teaches you, through her oracular predictions, truths which seem to be much akin to the teaching of the prophets. She ... uttered her oracular sayings in a city called Cumae ... And they who had heard it from their fathers as part of their country's tradition, told us that it was here she used to publish her oracles. . .. [T]hey said that she washed, and having put on her robe again, retires into the inmost chamber of the basilica, which is still a part of the one stone; and sitting in the middle of the chamber on a high rostrum and throne, thus proclaims her oracles. |
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| Many writers, including Plato said Justin Martyr, agreed that such prophecies were divinely inspired >>
...and that their prophecies were fulfilled >>
...because the prophetesseseszz
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And both by many other writers has the Sibyl been mentioned as a prophetess, and also by Plato in his Phaedrus. And Plato seems to me to have counted prophets divinely inspired when He read her prophecies. For He saw that what she had long ago predicted was accomplished; and on this account He expresses in the Dialogue with Meno his wonder at and admiration of prophets in the following terms: "Those whom we now call prophetic persons we should rightly name divine. And not least would we say that they are divine, and are raised to the prophetic ecstasy by the inspiration and posse |